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Pastor at Santorum rally: Americans won’t vote for Mormon president, Mormon church is racist

by Andrew Abramson | January 22nd, 2012

Rev. O’Neal Dozier, the conservative pastor of Pompano Beach’s Worldwide Christian Center, told the Palm Beach Post Sunday that Mitt Romney cannot win the presidency because Americans won’t vote for a Mormon president.

Following his third place finish in South Carolina, Rick Santorum made his first Florida campaign stop at Dozier’s church, where he gave a faith-based sermon. Dozier has been an outspoken critic of homosexuality and radical Islam. In November, former presidential candidate Herman Cain decided minutes before a speech not to have Dozier deliver his invocation, as was originally planned.

“You can look at the June Gallup poll that shows the people have already spoken – 22 percent of the electorate will not vote for a Mormon,” Dozier said. “The American people will not vote for a Mormon to be president of the United States.”

Dozier, who is black, said a Republican will need at least 10 percent of the black vote to win the presidency.

“Blacks are not going to vote for anyone of the Mormon faith,” Dozier said. “The book of Mormon says the Negro skin is cursed.”

From 1849 through 1978 the Church of Latter-Day Saints barred blacks from its priesthood. The church has lifted but not repudiated the policy.

Dozier said if Romney is the nominee, President Obama’s surrogates will bring out what Dozier considers to be racist views in the Mormon Church.

Dozier’s comments came after Santorum had left a Coral Springs rally to attend a private fundraiser at the Coral Ridge Country Club. Santorum was not available to comment.

Dozier believes Santorum’s sermon at the Worldwide Christian Center was a step toward making him the preferred choice of black conservative voters.

“He came to a predominately black church, and he began his campaign at the most impoverished, HIV-invested area of South Florida,” Dozier said. “That will be a big boost to blacks Americans. The conservative blacks want a man who is principled.”

Of Newt Gingrich, Dozier was less critical but said he “has issues with Freddie Mae and Freddie Mac, he was and advisor to them and he lobbied for them.”

But Dozier seemed open to a Gingrich endorsement if Santorum falls short, saying, “I’m hoping that doesn’t hurt him in this case because we might need Newt.”

***
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111 Responses to “Pastor at Santorum rally: Americans won’t vote for Mormon president, Mormon church is racist”

  1. Janet Thorley Says:

    I am a Mormon and I have read the book of Mormon many times. No where in the Book of Mormon does it say that the Negro skin is cursed. I do not know what this minister’s agenda is, or what he is trying to promote, but it certainly isn’t tolerance and understanding.

  2. Kris Says:

    Mormon president, where would that leave separation of church and state with a Mormon church across the street from every public school you pass? I am not Mormon and my kids are not in public school. Just something everyone should think about

  3. Scott Ryan Says:

    Janet doesn’t understand the Book of Mormon. http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/racialstatements.htm

    Notwithstanding, Romney has a glass jaw and would lose anyway.

    After viewing the Thursday night GOP debate in Charleston, I noticed a recurring pattern with Mitt Romney.

    After virtually every hard hitting, direct question – he responds by saying “I’m going to answer your question – BUT FIRST…” then he rambles on with some canned nonsense having nothing to do with the question.

    It’s pretty obvious that he has these remarks well memorized, having been campaigning for the past six years.

    What Mitt seems to be doing is thinking of how he’s going to answer the poignant question while the torrent of dribble effortlessly spills out of his mouth.

    You may have noticed that sometime’s he finally follows the ensuing monologue with an insipid answer to the original question posed – and sometimes he exhausts all his time and bores the audience so much that he gets away without answering the question at all.

    A classic example would be last night after he rambled on for several minutes without answering the question, he actually had to ask “where were we?” That was when Newt paused and smiled with subtle sarcasm, then said “Gee Mitt, I don’t know”. It was a masterful execution on Newt’s part and demonstrated what an impressive communicator he is.

    I highly recommend watching that moment again as I don’t think most people appreciated it. It’s worth a rewind.

    The thing is that Mitt is only fooling his disciples, the 25% GOP moderates.

    The rest of us are tired of the platitudes and question dodging. The November election is going to be a street fight and banal remarks won’t get it done.

    We cannot send in a paper champion with a glass jaw. Newt is ready for prime-time.

  4. Southern Baptist Says:

    This Southern Baptist and Palm Beach County native most certainly will vote for Mitt Romney.

  5. Jeremiah Says:

    Romney’s father was a leader in the civil rights movement:
    Martin Luther King Jr was a Christian African-American who didn’t have a problem with a president who was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    “King spoke positively about the possible [presidential] candidacies of republicans George Romney, Charles Percy, and Nelson Rockefeller.”
    –Reference
    Bearing the Cross: Martin Luther King, Jr., and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference by David J. Garrow, 1986 (reprint 2004), page 575. 1987 Pulitzer-Prize Biography Winner

    Maybe Dozier should be more inclusive of diversity of religious thought and give more credit to the intelligence of African American voters rather than to assume that Romney couldn’t win their votes.

  6. Pete Says:

    Dozier is a moron. You simply cannot say these kinds of things – politics and religion do not mix. And why the media gives these morons airtime is beyond me. Let’s focus on the issues people. Our nation is in a heap big mess, our current president is way over his head, and frankly, the only man who has the credentials to lead us out of this mess is Romney. Is he the most articulate? Probably not. I wish he’d prepare more and be ready for the tough questions. But the fact remains – he’s the best qualified.

  7. Blarkin Says:

    The Book of Mormon does not speak about any group of people of African decent –that is simply a fact.

    It does, however, speak of a group of people called “Lamanites”, who are descendants of a character named Laman. Laman came to the American continent with his father’s family from Jerusalem 600 years before the birth of Christ. Lamanites, according to the Book of Mormon, we’re cursed with a dark skin to separate them from the more righteous descendants of his brother Nephi. The Book of Mormon also tells of times when the Lamanites become more righteous than the Nephites, and prophesies that in our day, the Lamanites (descendants include the indigenous peoples of North and South America and the many who have mixed with them) will become a very strong and prosperous people.

    To suggest that these scriptures have anything to do with blacks is manipulative and deceptive and reveals a person looking for evidence to support pre-drawn conclusions and prejudices about Mitt Romney and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons).

  8. Mickey Says:

    This comment about mormons are racist is pure BS. My interracial kids, and my ineterracial familys best friends in our neighborhood are mormon. And, although we are not mormon, we all have attended their church and they have visited ours. Our kids do sleep overs, we car pool, we help each other when needed as neighbors should ( if a tree falls in the yard, need camoping q equipment, need to borrow $$… anything). The key tenant of the mormon faith is Family. If you are pro family and believe in Jesus Christ as they do also, then you should not have any problems with mormons. Rev Dozier is an ignorant racist who should never have a church. And no one should ever pay any attention to what comes out of such a fools mouth.I am ashamed that he is also an African American (like I am) spuing such racist nonesense.

  9. Kris Says:

    We can not only be concerned with, he just might be able to get us out of this mess we are in. We need to be more concerned with where is he going to take us.

  10. Jeremiah Says:

    Perhaps Dozier should actually read the Book of Mormon. Then he might report the actual mention of “blacks” in the book. It is in 2 Nephi 26:33.

    33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

    This was translated and brought forth in a time when slavery was the norm.

  11. V Says:

    It’s interesting that people who don’t like President Obama say biased statements like “he is in over his head” translation; he’s not smart enough. But yet we endured 8 years of President George Bush, who took a budget surplus and turned it into a deficit. Started multiple wars. And could not find a coherent phrase with both hands. He and the republican controlled congress left us in a recession at Obama’s election. And yet the republican members of congress state immediately after his inauguration that their focus is not to improve the country but to make sure he is not re-elected. All of this is ignored and the president is blamed for it all. Seems a little ignorant and unfair.

  12. grownup Says:

    Here we are in 2012 and we still have bigots who would use religion to judge another American. It is amazing how a “Man of God” would forget what this country was founded on…. Religious freedom. The ultimate hypocrisy is to “judge” and discriminate on religious grounds… How sad.

  13. eolsen Says:

    Rev. Dozier is simply a bigot. Once a bigot reveals themselves, reasoning with them is impossible. They will call light at noonday, dark. Theirs’ is a classic thinking error.

  14. Doc Morty Says:

    People are afraid of what they don’t know. Mitt is a member of an unknown religion. Mormons are great people and have always done well in positions of leadership, the list of people in such positions is vast. It’s not even a question who should be the nominee, Mitt. Not even gonna say the Reverend’s name who spoke, not even worth the type. Give’s any member of his faith and Christianity for that matter a bad name.

  15. Steve Says:

    I live in Missouri and the Mormons were driven out of Missouri in the 1830s. Many of us now live in the same areas that were formerly populated by our people. Why were the Mormons expelled from the state? The number one reason cited by the white rabble who drove them out was that they were anti-slavery in a state that promoted keeping the African-Americans in bonds.

  16. Jed Says:

    Sounds to me like he is taking words out of context. The Book of Mormon does not mention “negroes”, as Rev. Dozier calls them, because there were none in the Americas between 589 BC and 421 AD.

  17. Jed Says:

    It’s worth noting that Martin Luther King, Jr endorsed Mitt Romney’s father George for President in he 1960′s. They led simultaneous Civil Rights marches together in Michigan when George Romney, also Mormon, was Governor of the State.

  18. Sam Says:

    Dozier is the bigot, hes the one who is intolerant. The man is filled with hatred and constantly bashes Muslims, Mormons, gays, etc. Get a life, is this what Jesus preached?

  19. grownup Says:

    I truly hope his congregation does not subscribe to the policy of bigotry. This has to be embarassing.

  20. Disgusted Says:

    Mormons believe that people are black because they are the souls of spirits that refused to fight with Jesus against Satan thousands of years ago. Mormonism really is that crazy.

  21. Rose Says:

    Christians don’t speak ill! So shut up Dozier what a shame! You are giving us Christians a bad name.

  22. RMW Stanford Says:

    Santorum would be a terrible candidate. He is not an economic conservative. He has a bad record on earmarks. He is even worse on trade. Voting to support special interests over consumers. He has supported a number of tariffs that would raise cost on consumers and in one case supported a bill that would kick tariff revenues back to a special interest group.

    http://www.examiner.com/bloomington-economic-policy-in-springfield/why-rick-santorum-worries-me-on-trade

  23. Ray Says:

    #20 – No, they don’t believe that. It was taught by some of their former leaders over 20-30 years ago, if my memory is right, but it isn’t taught now.

    ALL religions have had bigots in their past and bigots now. Dozier is an example of that fact.

  24. Scott Pehrson Says:

    Harry Reid is also a “good” Mormon. What do ya say Dozier? Any thoughts on Harry? Oh because he agrees with you he is OK…What a hypocrite

  25. pepe Says:

    Dozier is ignorant and a biggot. Does he even know how many blacks are members of the church? so how the church be racist? and by the way some black mormons will vote for Romney and some will not. some white mormons will vote for Romeny and some not, because the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day saints NEVER tells or even advices its members who to vote for

  26. Curt Says:

    I have a good friend who is Mormon. He used to live in the Deep South. He told me once about being called a racist. The man who called him a racist attended an all-white Baptist church. It was segregated from the all-black Baptist church in the same town.

    My friend laughed as he told me about being called a racist for attending a church where black and white members sat side-by-side in the pews by a man who wouldn’t think of worshiping with any “coloreds”. One of the black men in my friend’s congregation actually was his supervisor in a church group.

    This was about 15 years ago. Neither situation has changed, from my experience.

    Dozier is a bigot who is catering in stereotypes. I’m sure there are Mormons who are racist, but the ones I’ve known personally have not been.

  27. Ken Says:

    This banter is why I’m for Ron Paul. A Christian and Baptist who sticks to the issues we elect a president to address. Theological issues just confuse everyone. Let’s leave this to the Church(es). Foreign wars, massive debt, dishonest monetary system and following the Constitution that binds us together as a nation needs a unique leader.

  28. M86 Says:

    I’m a Black man. So, let me get this straight about Dozier. Because the Mormon faith teach that black men are cursed, Romney should not get the black votes. However, candidates like Santorum and Ginrich have, on record, made racially-tinged comments about blacks and blacks should vote for them? Interesting.

    As a Black man, I will be voting for Romney. I have too. You see, if he believes a Black Man is cursed, I’m just curious what he’s gonna do as President to push the Mormon’s crusade to curse every black Man in America. If we, as a nation, have to put a stop to this madness, let’s take their best leader in Romney, make him President and dare him to put forth policies “cursing” black people everywhere in America. At least we’d know who our target is: Mitt Romney. We can then rally the country to expose all those that will be out in force “cursing” us black people.

    I assume this will be a 4 year agenda of removing 13% of the population of black people, via “cursing.” Let Dozier be the spokeperson while Romney is President and direct our moves in strategic precision to thwart the Romney forces if Mormons “cursing” black people in the land of America.

    Mitt Romney
    2012!!!

  29. John Ross Says:

    In a video posted online, Dozier explains his church preaches “the dangers of Islam and Islamic fascism,” and once proudly boasted that God is “100 percent for capital punishment.” But at the same convention where he made the latter statement, he stated that homosexuality is “so nasty and disgusting that it makes God want to vomit.”

  30. M86 Says:

    Just to remind people here. Every candidate that’s still running for the Republican nomination already have been proven to be racists against black except Romney. Isn’t that interesting.

    Santorum was caught blasting blacks on welfare. Newt Ginrich think his conscious was cleared of any racism when he suggested black youth take jobs as janitors to learn the meaning of hard work while the instituting of slavery is a testimony that the White Man and “hard work” part ways quickly.

    Ron Paul had his writtings pulled out of the graves and those old bones couldn’t lie if his life depended on it. Rick Perry (before he bowed out) whitewashed the niggerhead scribbling on that rock…..and I tell you, even the truth can be found under a rock!

    By the way, just last week, Romney gave 50 dollars to a homeless black woman, to go along with no other findings of racism in his past. And we know the media have been digging in vain to find a hit piece on him to no avail. Must be frustrating.

    As it stands, Romney is definitely a safe bet for blacks to vote for than any of the other candidates.

    Mitt Romney
    2012!!!

  31. Bro. Jared Says:

    I am an Elder in the Mormon Church. Every month I go out with a 17 yr old companion to visit members and check on their welfare. My young companion is a Priest in our Church and he is Black. At the appropriate age, probably 19, he also will be ordained an Elder. He is a faithfull, compassionate and personable young man. I am proud to have him as my friend and companion.

  32. Brian Says:

    “Since I joined the Church, I desire to be more and more obedient to God. As I do so, many people say to me, ‘I see a light in you more than ever before. What is it?’…During one performance at Disney world…[a member of the audience asked,] ‘Could you please tell us…how you got that light?’

    “the question was direct. so I gave a direct answer: ‘I have become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” – Gladys Knight

  33. Mormons Are Christian Says:

    Detroit Free Press: “With Gov. Romney a surprise arrival and marching in the front row, more than 500 Negroes and whites staged a peaceful anti-discrimination parade up Grosse Pointe’s Kercheval Avenue Saturday. … ‘the elimination of human inequalities and injustices is our urgent and critical domestic problem,’ the governor said. … [Detroit NAACP President Edward M.] Turner told reporters, ‘I think it is very significant that Governor Romney is here. We are very surprised.’ Romney said, ‘If they want me to lead the parade, I’ll be glad to.’” (”Romney Joins Protest March Of 500 In Grosse Pointe,” Detroit Free Press, 6/29/63)

    http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/homepage/x1148354759

  34. Jeremiah Says:

    It is always disappointing to me to see people who have clearly never read the Book of Mormon regurgitate falsehoods from the Internet or other sources. They wish to tell the world what Mormons believe and call us “crazy” without ever looking at sources of official church doctrine (teachings). Just because a leader or member of our church has a theory or speculation as to something, doesn’t make it our official church doctrine. The official doctrine from our canonized scriptures has always taught that “all are alike unto God” regardless of color of skin, status, or religion.

  35. mb Says:

    I’m so tired of hearing that Mormons are racist! No we aren’t. Its just that simple. The founder of the Mormon church(Joseph Smith) ran for president of the USA on the same platform Lincoln ran on & this was before Lincoln. He wanted to Sullivan government owned land and use the money to buy freedom for the slaves or have them freed and give them their own land to work. One of the reasons Mormons were murdered in Missouri Is because they were against slavery. I personally have ancestors who were tortured & murdered because of that. Mormons have never had a segregated congregation which is more than I can say for other Christian faiths. Also, the book of Mormon never even mentions Africa or black people. People are so incredibly ignorant toward Mormons.

  36. Dandini Says:

    This Pastor Dozier is paid to preach…

    that should really tell it all… he works for his money and medical and retirement benefits and preaches accordingly…

    What if he were a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where they have an “unpaid” clergy???

    I was born and raised Lutheran (Missouri Synod)…

    converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after studying the Bible and Book of Mormon, praying and fasting, and receiving a confirmation of the Spirit.

  37. Dandini Says:

    Rev. Dozier has made a few statements that were outright lies to those who are better educated.

    But that is okay, as we all have human weaknesses

  38. Patrick Says:

    The Church of Jesus Christs of Latter Day Saints is not a racist Church. No where in our scriptures does it mention Negro skin or black skin as a curse.

    Also the only reference to slavery in our scriptures comes from the Holy Bible which fully endorses and condones slavery, setting laws about how much one can beat a slave or what happens if they accidentally kill a slave while beating it.

    It declare the LDS Church as racist you have to condemn the Holy Bible which does present men as able to be bought and sold as slaves. So the Pastor is a hypocrite to condemn the LDS Church as racist.

  39. Raymond Takashi Swenson Says:

    Which Mormons is he calling “racist”? The 400,000 Mormons in Ghana, Nigeria, and other nations in Africa? The million Mormons in Brazil, who include many people with African ancestry? The Mormons in Haiti and in Harlem?

    Is he saying that the one third of Tongans who are Mormon are racist? Is he attacking the million Mormons in Asia, from Mongolia to the Philippines? Is it the Mormons in Siberia, the Ukraine, Germany or England?

    The revetend should join the rest of us in the 21st Century, where over half of the 14 million Mormons live in 150 nations outside the US and speak languages at home other than English. The Mormons having been tecruiting membets among American Indians, Polynesians, and Asians for over a century. We never had segregated congregations. I grew up with black families in my congregation in Salt Lake City and helped baptize a black man in Colorado Springs in 1974. He told me that he had visited many churches in the city, but the only congregation that made him feel welcome was the Mormons.

    Because so many Mormons servenas missionaries, thete isba network of personal connections among Mormonsbacrossball lines of race and ethnicity. I am a Mormon. My mother is Japanese, and I served as a missuonary in Japan. One of my misdionary co-workets in Japan has a daughter who served as a missionary thete in Florida. Mormons from Kenya have proselyted in Idaho. You can go to any campus of BYU and find ethnic diversity and a high consciousness of being an international church. What keeps American blacks out of the Mormon Church is their own teluctance to look for themselves and cast prejudice aside. Both racial and religioys prejudice are ugly things. How can you criticize one while rmbracing the other?

  40. Jettboy Says:

    I do think that it is going too far here in not admitting that there was a racist history for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Blacks not allowed to hold the Priesthood (although they could be baptized and a few were ordained before Brigham Young) until 1978 was a reality. But, for those who have actually studied the history and not just ignorant comments should know how complicated that history was. Joseph Smith had very nice things to say about blacks and held a few as close friends, having ordained about two of them that we know of to the Priesthood.

    So where did holding the Priesthood from blacks come from? History isn’t complete on that issue as there isn’t an authorized revelation on the subject. A scripture from the Mormon “Pearl of Great Price” is used as an explanation why, but the how of its inception is clouded by contending narratives of anti-slavery and pro-slavery arguments among the early Mormons. As a Mormon I believe the Lord postponed extending the Priesthood to blacks to protect it from a racist United States. Sadly, such a history that protected it from past views has damaged its present, regardless of the fact that all other conservative religions were also racist. Southern Baptists, for instance, were organized in opposition to the pro-slavery North.

    All of that said, any modern Mormon racism is based on individual feelings where it does exist. The revelation to extend the Priesthood to ALL worthy members makes the past for members noll and void. It existed, but plays no part in how Mormons view or act toward our black brothers and sisters.

  41. Jeremiah Says:

    Jetboy,
    While I appreciate your thoughts, I beg to differ on a point. The church, including all official doctrine, has never been “racist;” of course, there are individuals who have had prejudice of one kind or another at various times.
    This is an important distinction.
    In addition, there are many blessings that the Lord witholds from individuals or groups at various times for his own reasons.
    The other 11 tribes of Israel didn’t complain that they weren’t allowed to hold the priesthood or claim the Lord was racist in favoring the tribe of Levi. It is His authority and He will give it to whom He will when he sees fit. “No man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God” (Hebrews 5:4)
    No one has claimed the Lord racist for giving the gospel first to the Jews then to the Gentiles. It was always going to go to the Gentiles, in the Lord’s timing (as revealed to Peter).
    The fact is that The Church of Jesus Christ’s official doctrine has always been that “all are alike unto God.”
    I won’t even pretend to know all the reasons God has for doing things the way he does; my thoughts are not His thoughts. This I do know: Certain gospel blessings come to some early, to some late, and some don’t come until heaven, but to the faithful followers of Christ–they will come.

  42. Don Says:

    I wonder if Mr. Dozier would like to make the same comment about Southern Baptists. After all, they began their group in order to continue as Baptists, yet not mix themselves with Blacks. Can Dozier tolerate that? By the way, if someone has a problem with LDS and a former policy, please note that the policy has changed! Let’s give a little credit for the change, instead of beating them about the head and shoulders over the past.

  43. LindaSDF Says:

    Kris said “Mormon president, where would that leave separation of church and state with a Mormon church across the street from every public school you pass?”

    The only place where this even MIGHT be true is in Utah, where the majority of people are Mormon. Are you saying that this WILL happen with a Mormon POTUS? Because I don’t see how. He would not have any more power to do such stuff than any other POTUS.
    One of the things that is taught in our church ALL THE TIME is FREE AGENCY. You have the GOD-GIVEN right to choose what church you want to belong to, or even to not belong to any at all. Our 11th Article of Faith, written by Joseph Smith, which is in our scriptures, is “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow ALL men the same privilege; let them worship how, where or what they may” (emphasis is mine). That means if you want to be a Pastafarian and worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, hey, we are not going to stand in your way!

  44. Joe Says:

    It’s sad that people promote bias against members of Christ’s Church for political gain. My LDS family is racially mixed, Black, Native American etc. There are many Black lds (check the website by that name through FAIR lds) including one Black lds running for President (in Mali). And I’m pretty sure most Mormons are people of color, as were the Lehites in the Book of Mormon (Mormon was descended from Joseph sold into Egyptian slavery, and his Egyptian wife Asenat). They were essentially all one dark-skinned race, and thus could not be racist in our modern terms (as the Pastor accuses them of being). They did use ancient language for defining religiosity (see wiki quote below), but hating on Mormons today and accusing them of racism because of the language chosen by ancient dark skinned people is really bigotry.
    It is true that some Church leaders had some racist ideas, starting with Peter, who thought that all other races (black, white, etc) were “unclean,” yet 100 years before MLK explained that “…the folk lynching them are often big deacons in the Baptist churches and stewards in the Methodist churches feeling that by killing and murdering and lynching another human being…”, about 100 years before others were doing these things, Mormons were teaching that if Blacks were set free they would take the shine off our highest dignitaries, that the white man would be punished for mistreating Blacks etc. Mormons were letting Blacks vote, and were viciously attacked, raped, etc in the South for pro-Black and anti-slavery stances. Joseph Smith gave priesthood to Blacks, and one of the first anti-Mormon publications said:
    “The believers in this miserable production, are known by the name of “Mormonites… Among them is a man of color, a chief man…”

    Mormons were driven from their homes and from State to State. They finally left the United States. Mitt Romney’s family was in Mexico until recently. He is actually Mexican.

    The interesting thing, with the false accusations against Mormons, is that if a Methodist were running, no one would say anything about what MLK said about them. The accusations against Mormons are almost always false. And we understand that Christ’s followers are to be accused of all manner of evil falsely, for so did they to the prophets before, and we don’t mind so much, but we do want to be understood. We are not racist, nor are we polygamists, nor are we any of the other stereotypes that anti-Mormons paint for us.
    Here is the wiki quote, “White Skins” keep in mind that Book of Mormon people were an ancient dark skinned people. The Pastor is judging us by terms they used for themselves, but I don’ think he would accuse all Indo Europeans of racism because of the Rigveda….that’s called a double standard, and it is bigotry: “Assignment of positive and negative connotations of white and black date to the classical period in a number of Indo-European languages…Religious conversion was described figuratively as a change in skin color. Similarly, the Rigveda uses krsna tvac “black skin” as a metaphor for irreligiosity.

  45. JimmyT Says:

    Dozier is a dummy. There are no Negros in the Book of Mormon. A Mormon church next to every public school? That is a whole lot of Mormon churches. What does it take to lift the quality of comments on this site?

  46. Greg Whitener Says:

    This is the same smoke and mirrors move that missionaries I meet use when I bring up the book of mormon. The Reverand probably IS an idiot for supporting the race baiting Santorum, but as a black man, I see no difference in calling Africans cursed by Dark skin than saying the same about Indians. It is still racist, but mormons think the non-mormon world is ok with it since there are so few Native americans left.

    Brigham Young proscribed the DEATH penalty for race-mixers. I don’t care if every mormon in florida disagrees with it, truth is truth. While you’re denying the inherent racism in the religion, explain why the black skinned people will be rewarded by becoming “White and Delightsome”(2 Nephi 5:21)

  47. Terry Spencer Says:

    First of all, the Book of Mormon says nothing about the black race. Secondly, people had better start worrying about the economy, jobs, and the national debt, and stop worrying about what religion, race, color, or personal beliefs a candidate has. The Mormon Church is not a racist church. They have missionaries in all parts of the world, converting people of all races and colors. One of my best friends is an African-American Mormon convert.

  48. Terry Spencer Says:

    The term “White and delightsome” refers back to a Hebrew meaning of “white and delightsome,” which refers to a person’s state of righteousness, not the color of their skin. Also, Brigham Young was human, he may have been speaking his opinion(“by permission”)… as the Apostle Paul once said when he was not speaking by the spirit.

  49. Dan Says:

    Ok, let’s get it right. Prior to the 1960′s, most protestant churches would not even allow blacks into their church. This has never been the case with Mormons. If you check out “All Abrahams Children” by Armand Mauss, you will see poll after poll that demonstrates that Mormons are LESS racist than other religions. This is a fact. Not allowing a certain group of people to all aspects of the faith may be a mystery, but has occurred throughout the Bible. For example, only the Levites were allowed the priesthood, and only the Jews were even preached to at all until after Jesus’ death.

  50. John Colton Says:

    Dozier has his facts wrong, I won’t speak as to his motivation. Perhaps it’s simply that he was misinformed. But, as others have also posted, the Book of Mormon describes a particular group of people (the “Lamanites”) who at a particular point in time (roughly 600 BC) were cursed with a darker skin than their kin (the “Nephites”). Neither the Lamanites nor the Nephites have anything to do with black Africans–they were Israelites who came to the Americas from the Middle East. And the Book of Mormon makes absolutely no statement about dark skin in general having anything to do with a curse from God.

  51. Dayle Says:

    Reverend Dozier must have forgotten the comment from Santorum when he said earlier this year in Iowa that he doesn’t want to make black people better by giving them other people’s money! Yet he calls Romney a racist for misinterpreted statements out of the Book of Mormon commonly used my Anti-Mormons. It’s Funny the reverend overlooks the Catholic Church’s long history of discrimination as well as other abuses. I don’t hear the reverend accusing Santorum of belonging to a church that harbors pedophiles. It must be easier to pick on the Mormons.

  52. Gramajane Says:

    There are some High Schools in areas with lots of LDS, where if the LDS enrolled students are so many that they can not attend a one hour scripture class before school each day for lack of large enough rooms / enough teachers etc– usually a Seminary building is built near the high school. ( note— not by grade schools – )
    It is not a worship chapel– FYI
    I work to forgive all the lies and distortions spread about my church. I sure feel sorry for anybody who believes everything they read/hear. The Bible tells is in James if we lack wisdom to ask God and Jesus made a member of a faith believed by most Jews to have corrupted their faith, to be the hero in the parable of the Good Samaritin — are we working to follow Jesus teachings to love our neighbor? Let’s all work harder?

  53. christine Says:

    Joseph Smith, as well as Brigham Young were racist. And made several noted racists comments. If they were not, why did they do Blacks a favor by not letting them in the priesthood? Why didn’t it change until1978 after Romneys grand-dad tried running for the presidency? Their social stances change depending on who the prophet is at that time. Why do they believe that marrying a black was a sin that couldn’t be forgiven. Mormonism is a joke.

    Just because you dont think you’re racist doesn’t mean the founder of your theology wasn’t.

  54. spamlds Says:

    It’s a shame to see a Christian pastor engage in race-baiting and anti-Mormon rhetoric. His information is inaccurate about Mormon beliefs. All anyone has to do to know differently is walk in the door of any of our churches on Sunday morning. People of all ages, race, or ethnicity are welcome and will be treated with kindness and respect.

    http://spamlds.grouply.com/message/214

  55. LindaSDF Says:

    >>Brigham Young proscribed the DEATH penalty for race-mixers.<<

    Greg, what Brigham Young was saying was, that the WHITE man who holds the priesthood can NOT have his wicked way with his black slave/servants. Way too many men back then used their slaves to slake their sexual perversions back then, and blacks had NO power over anything, especially their bodies. Black women were mere playthings to most men.
    Brigham Young told the priesthood holders, that if they had sexual relations with their black slaves/servants, THEY were worthy of death on the spot. The one in power, not the servant.
    Doesn't sound racist to me.

  56. LindaSDF Says:

    Christine, if you take the little snippets of stuff that the anti-Mormons post that were said by our past leaders, and apply today’s standards, yes, it does sound racist.
    But, if you take EVERYTHING they said, and apply the standards of that day, you will find that they were more progresive about racism than most people.

  57. Jeremiah Says:

    Christine,
    I’m sorry but you don’t know the first thing about Joseph Smith. If you do, please name for me the adult black woman taken in by Joseph and Emma who lived with them just like any other family member. Hint, Joseph and Emma offered to legally adopt her into the Smith family since her family had abandoned her. She ended up declining the invitation to formally join the Smith family, because she had always been taught that whites and blacks don’t mix.

  58. Don Says:

    Since the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saints 142 years ago, congregations HAVE NEVER BEEN SEGREGATED by race. Rather they have been organized by geography. Your address, not your race determines which congregation you attend. Occasionally, members will be given a choice to attend a Mormon church of members who speak the same language, and/or share the same culture. Not only do Mormons believe in the brotherhood of all mankind, but we practice it!

    Are we perfect in being color blind? No, American Mormons are subject to the same cultural biases as other Americans, but the LDS Church has always taught Christ’s message is to all people. In the 1830′s and 1840′s Joseph Smith publicly invited Blacks join and worship with the Mormons. This was just as hostilities between the States were warming up. And it was Southern sympathizers who among the those who persecuted and ultimately murdered him.

  59. Ryan Says:

    Here are a couple of historical facts to put things in perspective. 1) White America has been highly racist ever since boat loads of slaves were brought to this country. This was “necessary” to justify their inhumanity to the Blacks. 2) Mormons were not inoculated against American racism and weren’t perfect. 3) A major reason Mormons were driven out of Missouri by Mobs was that Joseph Smith publicly denounced slavery in editorials. 4) In 1840 slave holders spun off the the Southern Baptist Convention (from the American Baptists) to retain their “right” to have slaves. 5) No time in the LDS Church’s history have congregations been segregated by race. Occasionally wards are set up for language and/or culture. But all are voluntary and Blacks have never been excluded. 6) 1978 Blacks were given the priesthood 7) 1990 Southern convention apologized for its racism.

  60. John Pack Lambert Says:

    The Book of Mormon makes Zero references to “Negro skin”. Marvin Perkins and Fred Bethel, Latter-day Saints who are African Americans have argued that references to such things as “skin of blackness” in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon need to always be read as symbolic statements.

    The Church has “not repudiated the policy” what exactly is that supposed to mean? The Church will even ordain those who are black who died during those years to the priesthood. In all meaningful ways the Church has repudiated the policy, and it has sought for the last 34 years to reach out to people of African descent, sending missionaries to many areas with overwhelmingly African populations. There is at least one black Mormon bishop in Florida, and many more in other states in the US and hundreds in Brazil and Nigeria.

  61. Wendell Welling Says:

    One would think that a “man of God” like the good Reverand Dozier would have as his first goal the unifying of mankind. Instead, he ran with what someone else told him the Book of Mormon says, when it is patently false. Christian art has long depicted God and his Angels as light, or white or even radiantly so. It has also depicted fallen Angels and demons and Satan himself as black. I don’t see the Reverend taking either of the Catholic candidates to task for these depictions, yet he declares that the Book of Mormon mentions “negroes” when it does no such thing. When will the retraction be published? Isn’t bearing false witness a sin anymore? When will Lawrence O’Donnell take him to task for his gross misrepresentation? Oh, he can’t. He has also taken to the air and lied about Joseph Smith being a racist slaveholder. How ironic it is to know that Joseph Smith denounced slavery, and ran for President on a platform of emancipation, yet today, his entire religion is denounced as racist when no one in the media seems to be willing to do the slightest degree of homework. Along with never having segregated congregations, there were also never any LDS ward sponsored KKK meetings or lynchings. Can the good Christians from the south claim the same? If the Reverend Dozier puts any stock in his ordination, I hope he will retract his unfortunate gaffe, for that is what it is. He should be embarrassed and ashamed.

  62. Greg Whitener Says:

    The robotic quality in so many of these responses is laughable.WHEN FACED WITH ACTUAL WORDS FROM MORMON SCRIPTURE, people deny they mean what they mean. It’s as if George Orwell is writing these things for you. The demonization LITERALLY by SKIN COLOR IS THE DEFINITION OF RACISM! Whether against, Red, Black, White, Blue or Green it is Racist and you sound like fools denying it.

  63. scdaddyo Says:

    Let me get this straight a bigoted comment by a pastor calling someone else a bigot.

    Santorum is better that this. He needs to rebuke these words of bigotry and rescind the endorsement by this pastor.

    The irony coming from a pastor is that Christ spread light and this pastor is spreading darkness.

  64. Joe Says:

    It seems that several people who claim to have read the comments haven’t really read them, or skimmed over casually looking only for that which will help them cling to anti-Mormon prejudices.
    Our racially charged world is completely different from the 600BC Book of Mormon America. In 600BC a group led by Lehi sailed to America. The people writing the Book of Mormon were descended from Joseph and his Egyptian wife. They used ancient language and symbolism (see below).They probably never saw Irish white and never knew about our racist views. Evidence indicates ALL Book of Mormon people were dark skinned, as I believe most Mormons today are dark skinned. Calling dark skinned Book of Mormon people racist for political gain is unethical and is bigoted. Stirring up hatred against Mormons because they accept this book as scripture (a book written by dark skinned people) is bigotry.
    Again, I don’t see anyone calling dark skinned Indians and Hindus racist because the Rigveda uses similar ancient language from a similar period in history (wiki “White Skins says:” “Religious conversion was described figuratively as a change in skin color. Similarly, the Rigveda uses krsna tvac “black skin” as a metaphor for irreligiosity.” “Assignment of positive and negative connotations of white and black date to the classical period…”
    The interesting thing, with the false accusations against Mormons, is that if a Methodist (Bush) were running, no one would say anything about the true things said by MLK about Methodists, Baptists and others. And, with Santorum, no one is talking about Catholic involvement in American slavery or the first slave ship arriving in America (‘The good ship Jesus’) etc. (To clarify, I don’t blame Catholics or Muslims for slavery, I blame greed and hatred, bigotry against Blacks is inspired by that same being who inspires hatred against members of Christ’s Church.)
    My LDS family is racially mixed, Black, Native American etc. There are many Black lds (there is a website by that name through FAIR lds) including some famous Blacks, one Black lds running for President (in Mali), Gladys Knight, English rapper Alex Boye etc.
    For Mormons, if there is such a thing as a “chosen” people in America, it would be Native Americans. The Book of Mormon teaches that God gave America to dark skinned Native Americans as their “land of inheritance” and white “gentiles” should seek to be adopted into the family of dark skinned Lehi if they want to live here with them.
    Yes, some Church leaders had some racist ideas, starting with Peter, who thought that all other races (black, white, etc) were “unclean,” but they were mild compared to others racism, and 100 years before MLK explained that “…the folk lynching them are often big deacons in the Baptist churches and stewards in the Methodist churches feeling that by killing and murdering and lynching another human being…”, about 100 years before others were doing these things, Mormons were teaching that if Blacks were set free they would take the shine off the highest white dignitaries, that the white man would be punished for mistreating Blacks etc. Mormons were letting Blacks vote, and were viciously attacked, raped, etc partially resulting for pro-Black and anti-slavery stances. Joseph Smith gave priesthood to Blacks, and one of the first anti-Mormon publications said: “The believers in this miserable production, are known by the name of “Mormonites… Among them is a man of color, a chief man…”

    Mormons were driven from their homes and from State to State. They finally left the United States. Mitt Romney’s family was in Mexico until recently.
    The first Presidency of the LDS Church issued a statement in the early 1900s, which explained that they didn’t know why priesthood was restricted by Brigham Young after Joseph Smith was shot. They had been told by previous leaders that priesthood would again be given to all, and they were waiting for direction from God and hoped it would come soon. LDS leaders and scriptures officially taught that Blacks were equal to and even superior to whites, were blessed with wisdom, and that all are equal “Black and White.” Research shows that Mormons are less racist than other Christians and pretty much most other people. My LDS congregation has many racially mixed families.
    You must all remember that the accusations you hear against Mormons are almost always false (we are accused of “all manner of evil falsely” as Jesus said His followers would be, “for so persecuted they the prophets before you.” And those trying to paint us as evil do so unfairly, and are often seeking political gain or money, or are simply hateful. We are a people who understand that God is love. Please spread the love of Christ good Pastor, and try to understand your neighbors, even if you view us as the hated straying Samaritan (which we are not) you should still treat us kindly and try to build bridges, as Jesus did.

  65. John Pack Lambert Says:

    The Book of Mormon uses “dark skin” figuratively. At other points it refers to the Lamanites (who are not descendants of Laman, but people under the rule of descendants of Laman, there is a difference) as at some future point having “the scales of darkness fall from their eyes”. No one thinks their eyes were literally scaly.

    Actions speak louder than words. The Mormon Church has put forth the actions of putting men of African descent in positions of authority and leadership in the Church. For example Fred Bethel is the bishop of the Fort Lauderdale Ward. I give that as an example, not because I could not name others, but because it is the most relevant to south Florida that I know of. The Church has multiple Haitian-Creole congregations in South Florida as well, not exactly what a “racist” Church would do.

  66. John Pack Lambert Says:

    There is no reason to assume even 2 Nephi 26:33 is a reference to blacks in the sense of people of African descent. It seems more likely that the “black or white” there is being used in a symbolic sense. “bond or free” would have probably been the more radical statement in Joseph Smith’s day in that context.

  67. John Pack Lambert Says:

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no teaching on why people are black. The notion that it is a mark of people having not been as loyal to Christ at one point has been on multiple occasions denounced as false doctrine out of line with the teachings of the Church by Jeffrey R. Holland, a member of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles, and the leading expert on theological issues in that group. It has also been denounced as false by Dallin H. Oaks, and effectively was denounced as false although not as specifically by Bruce R. Mcconkie. Even in the 1950s David O. McKay and his counselors in the first presidency made statements that such an argument was mere speculation with no doctrinal foundation.

    We could attack lots of people for doctrinal speculation done by members of their religious body, however few would be in the face of multiple explicit denunciations of the teaching as we have in the case of this alleged teaching of the Mormons.

  68. John Pack Lambert Says:

    Scott #24,
    I suspect Dozier hates Mr. Reid even more. I suspect that Romney got more than 10% of the black vote in Massachusetts. Of course, in Massachusetts this could include Haitians who had had him as a Church leader and seen how he had walked the walk where others just talked the tlak.

    I personally support Santorum, but to claim that Mitt Romney is a racist is just plain wrong.

  69. John Pack Lambert Says:

    Further on comment 43, even it Utah it is only junior and senior high schools that have adjacent LDS Church owned buildings. In general there are not LDS Church owned buildings by elementary schools. Even with junior highs/middle schools they generally are not near the most recent buildings, and in some cases by older buildings are used as things like a Family History Center for Spanish speakers, so not even aimed at students.

    The zoning of real estate around school buildings is a local and state issue, with no federal power and control over it at all.

  70. John Pack Lambert Says:

    To Greg at #46,
    Brigham Young did not “prescribe the death penalty” for race mixers. In fact Brigham Young specifically counseled missionaries he sent to Native Americans to take Native American wives. At least a few, such as Ira Hatch, did so.

    As I have mentioned before the Book of Mormon does not say that people are cursed because of dark skin. You are reading it too literally.

    Beyond that, the fact of the matter is that Latter-day Saints have sought tirelessly to convert Native Americans to their religion. In general if there is an attack on their interactions with Native Americans it comes because they tried too hard to convert Native Americans.

    So it boils down to Mormons were racist for not trying to converts blacks hard enough prior to 1978 (and maybe in a few cases since) and for trying to hard to convert Native Americans from 1830 to the present. Opposite actions are equally called racist.

    The fact of the matter is Native American men like Sagowitz and Chief Tuba were very involved in Mormonism, going to the temple (and in Sagowitz case helping to build the Logan Temple) in the late 19th century.

    In the 1970s BYU had the most Native American students of any institution of higher education in the country.

    When I first was ordained to the priesthood, the adult leader who oversaw the 12 and 13 year-old preisthood holders in my ward was a Navajo man.

    Since the Book of Mormon probably happened in Southern Mexico and northern Guatemala, actually the only people who are highly likely to be descendants of Lehi, at least to a large extent, are those who live in those areas. Thus Agricol Lozano’s liturature on how the Mexicans are the chosen people, built from his reading of the Book of Mormon, is highly relevant in this discussion.

    The claim that Mormons are racist against Native Americans is just plain false. Brigham Young was proactively promoting inter-racial marriage.

  71. John Pack Lambert Says:

    Christine,
    The issues are more complexed than simply racism. The priesthood is not so much about power as about responsibility. I am not sure that will satisfy most people, but it is an issue worth considering.

    That said, Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Able and multiple other black men to the priesthood. Even this article makes it clear that the restriction on ordaining black men to the priesthood did not occur until after Joseph Smith died.

    That said, Elijah Able served as a missionary in the 1870s and was a funtioning holder of the priesthood until the day he died. There may have been a general policy against ordaining black men to the priesthood starting about 1850, but there were black men holding the priesthood 25 years latter, so the issue is way more complicated than people let on.

  72. John Pack Lambert Says:

    The claim that the Mormons believed that “marrying a black was a sin that could not be forgiven” does not have any backing in fact.

    In 1955, when inter-racial marriage was illegal (as in a crime for which you could be sent to jail) in several states, Spencer W. Kimball, a member of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles, said “inter-racial marriage is no sin” in a speach given at BYU.

    True his main context was white/Native American marriage. But his actual statement did not have any qualifiers. He stated that marriage between races was not a sin.

    I could also list 10 Mormon couples I can think of off the top of my head where the wife was white and the husband was black (and at least 5 where the husband was white and the wife was black) but it would be too little purpose. Letting your most valued and highest ordinance, the sealing of a man and a woman in the tmeple of God, be done between a black man and a white women is still somehow not enough to show that you do not bear any specific grudges against people based on their race.

    I guess there are issues of failure of inclusion, expectations of cultural conformity, cultural insensitivity and so on. However until people have grappled with how important temple marriage is to Mormons, they will not understand why I cite this example as the think that breaks down the claims of racism.

    I will be the first to admit that there are racist in the Church. I will be the first to admit that former leaders spoke in ways that were insensitive. However so was the declaration of Peter and his associates that non-israelites were “unclean”, something that they were able to overcome.

    God choses flawed men to advance his work.

    That said the quote in question from Brigham Young is probably best read as a denunciation of rape of slaves by owners. This is the context that Brigham Young is probably imagining. It still seems needlessly harsh and bombastic, but this is because his speech patterns and sensibilities were different than ours. His denunciation of rape of slaves though should be considered as a mark that he respected the humanity of them, even if he was not an intergrationist. Who was in 1863? Frederick Douglas had few supporters anywhere when he married a white women.

  73. Teshome Says:

    Santorum is the only genuine conservative in the race. Newt and romney are commpromised beacuse of their flip-flops, unlikability an have a lot of political baggages which coud be used by BHO. Newt’s surge in polls is due to people’s hatred of the mass media. Newt is irratic and romney is unreliable. Why do we follow the medias narrative and try to nominate them when the may not have a chance to win in the general? Newt changed church three times and had two wives – twice divorced due to infidelity. Now he is wiht the 3rd wife in the third church. Vot for santorum if you want to see the winner in the general election.

  74. cb Says:

    We are closing schools, laying people off. Families are being foreclosed on and being put out in the streets. And all the “church” and the States can talk about is who is Gay. We need to start looking at what is best for the country. We are not in high school any more. Hello!!! Or is it just all about the money?!? The Mormon Church spent $22 million to fight the California marriage battle even though the Mormon population in the state is approximately 2%. This country has kids to feed. $22 million could have feed a lot of poor families. It is time for us to grow up and “move on”.

  75. LindaSDF Says:

    I have another question. I doubt that there are too many churches out there that are not charitable organizations, or 501(c)(3) as labeled by the IRS. This is what the IRS says about 501(c)(3) orgs:
    >>Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

    Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner.

    On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

    The Internal Revenue Service provides resources to exempt organizations and the public to help them understand the prohibition. As part of its examination program, the IRS also monitors whether organizations are complying with the prohibition.<<

    Now, if the leaders of the LDS church were to stand up in the pulpit and specifically endorse Mitt Romney for POTUS, guys like Dozier would be all over us like white on rice (so to speak). Yet, they get up in front of God and everyone and do EXACTLY what the IRS says they can't do. And nothing happens to them. Does anyone else notice this, or am I missing something?

  76. Quinn Simmons Says:

    ABO————–
    Anybody But Obama

  77. Vanka Says:

    Mitt Romney and his Mormon religion officially believe:

    “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God on the earth, but is at the present limited to an ecclesiastical kingdom. During the millennial era, the kingdom of God will be both political and ecclesiastical, and will have worldwide jurisdiction in political realms when the Lord has made ‘a full end of all nations’ (D&C 87: 6).” (LDS Bible Dictionary).

    The Mormons aspire to have political dominion over the entire world! You can’t bring about and end of all nations without ending the United States of America! This makes Mormons enemies of the US and the Constitution!

    That is the most important thing you can know about Mormons.

    Doctrine and Covenants 87:6 says this “end to all nations” will be accomplished through war and bloodshed:

    “And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed…shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;”

    What happens when Mormons take over?

    Doctrine and Covenants 1:14 adds that those who refuse to be ruled by this Mormon World Government will be eliminated:

    “…the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;”

    Totalitarian theocracy, with fascism and intolerance… we have seen that before!

  78. Vanka Says:

    Not only does Mormon theology, scripture, and revelation contain prophecies, predictions, and “commandments” for the Mormon Church to “roll forth” like a stone, cut from the mountain without hands, to “consume the whole earth”, but Mitt Romney and his wife have made some disturbing secret oaths in Mormon temples:

    In the Mormon temple “Initiatory”, Mitt and his wife have been “anointed to become Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestesses unto the most high God, to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever”. The temple worker said: “I pour this holy anointing oil upon your head, and anoint you preparatory to your becoming a King and a Priest unto the Most High God, hereafter to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever.”

    In the Mormon temple “Endowment”, Mitt and his wife not only re-enacted ceremonies and motions of “penalties” such as slashing their throats and disemboweling themselves, if they should fail to keep secret the oaths they made, but they also made oaths such as:

    The Law of Obedience, where the women are placed under covenant to obey their husbands. Sexism anyone?

    The Law of Sacrifice:

    “And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God [the Mormon Church].”

    Do we really want a POTUS who will die for the Mormon Church? And who will sacrifice all he possesses for the Mormon Church? I don’t think so. The POTUS must have no higher priority and commitment than the United States of America!

    The Law of Consecration:

    “…you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.”

    The POTUS must NOT use the position to build up the Mormon Church! But Mitt has covenanted to do just that!

    Bringing and end to all nations, including the United States? World domination? Mitt’s secret covenants that are anti-American and express fanatic loyalty, with death oaths, to an organization above the supposedly sovereign United States of America and its Constitution?

    Looks like a cult. Quacks like a cult. It is a cult.

  79. Vanka Says:

    Mormons will TELL you that they are just nice people trying to do good in the world.

    Can you trust them?

    Worse than the sick and twisted racist and polygamist “doctrines” of the Mormon Church was their “prophets, seers, and revelators’” explicit and deliberate LYING to cover up their immoral and illegal practices!

    For instance, Joseph Smith LIED to his first wife, Emma, for over 10 years about his “spiritual wife”, a 15-16 year old named Fanny Alger, who was an orphan “adopted” into Joseph and Emma’s home and used as a servant. Oliver Cowdery, one of Joseph’s most trusted friends, Church leaders, and scribe for the Book of Mormon, was excommunicated because he would not deny that Joseph had this “tawdry affair” with the teenager, Fanny Alger.

    Smith presided over the publication of official Mormon “scriptures” – the Doctrine and Covenants – that stated:

    “Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: We declare that we believe, that one man should have but one wife…”

    But years earlier, and simultaneous with this publication, Smith was repeatedly “bedding” plural wives, and dictating “revelation” on plural wives, as well as secretly sharing the idea with a number of prominent early Mormons:

    Parley P. Pratt, “Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ”, published an editorial in August of 1842 stating:

    “…we would say that no such principle ever existed among the Latter-day Saints, and never will”, yet later Parley confessed that Joseph had disclosed the “revelation” to him in January of 1840.

    In Oct. of 1842, 12 prominent Mormon men and 19 women signed official affidavits stating: “We know of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants” [only one wife].

    This was a blatant lie, and the signers included John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Newel K. Whitney (who had personally married off one of his daughters to Joseph Smith the previous July), and two women who had been married to Smith just months earlier!

    Once Woodruff received “revelation” supposedly ending polygamy among the Mormons (1890 Manifesto), he and many others continued plural marriages until as late as 1904 (14 more years)! Moreover, they LIED in official statements to the US Congress about plural marriages they themselves had performed, authorized, and acquired!

    The history of the Mormon Church is FILLED with its leaders lying, deceiving, and abusing religious power in order to gain teen brides (victims) and retain power.

    That they justify their “lying for the Lord” is what is frightening. Their allegiances are to their cult Church, and not to this nation. They will lie, cheat, steal, and distort in order to bring about their Dominionist agenda.

  80. Vanka Says:

    Now we see in Mitt’s tax statements how many millions he gives to the Mormon cult each year, in addition to other Mormon-related organizations, such as BYU.

    Many Mormons try to make this out to be “charitable giving”, but it is not.

    let me tell you about Tithing in the Mormon Church. They SAY it is “voluntary” and that nobody is forced to pay tithing. As with everything Mormons tell you, this is a half-truth.

    Once a year, around the Christmas holidays, Bishops meet with each family in their congregation for “Tithing Settlement”. The name itself is ominous: you are expected to “settle up” your tithing payments so you can be a “full tithe-payer”. You go in, usually with your entire family in tow, and sit in little chairs in a humbled position in front of the big desk of the Bishop – like a child being called into the Principal’s office. The Bishop has asked the Ward Clerk to print out your Tithing records, and he has them ready for your appointment. If the amount they have on the records seems like it is appropriate (consistent with what the Bishop knows about your job), then he asks the father (the “head of the household” and “patriarchal leader of the family”) if you are a full tithe-payer.

    If he does not know how much you make, he will pretend to be friendly and inquire about your job, to get an idea how much you should be paying in Tithing. If the amount he has in his records does not seem to match what he expects, then right there in front of your wife and children, he will embarrass you, lecture you, and “call you to repentance”, pressuring you to pay a “full tithing” right then and there. They expect you to write them a check on the spot.

    If you are not a full tithe payer, or you say you are, but the Bishop does not believe you, he will share that judgment with others in the Bishopric (the Bishop and two buddies who “counsel” him), as well as other people in the Ward and Stake. These are all your neighbors, mind you, so very quickly, the rumor mill spreads the word that you are unworthy and dishonest because you don’t pay as much tithing as the Bishop thinks you should pay.

    And when the gossip spreads among your neighbors and fellow Ward and Stake members, then you are ostracized, distrusted, typically excluded from callings, and marginalized in the Church. And the opposite is also true. If you pay a lot to the Church, they think you are more righteous and more “blessed” than others. In this way, people can and do effectively BUY their way into leadership positions in the LDS Church!

    Even if you did not know the cultish doctrines of the Mormon Church, the high-pressure Tithing program is as CULT-ish as can be!

  81. spamlds Says:

    It’s crazy to see all the inflammatory rhetoric focused at the Mormons from people who have never once set foot inside the doors of any of our meetings.

    Where I live (in the South) all the Protestant/Evangelical churches around us are segregated. There are black churches, white churches, and Hispanic churches. In the Mormon congregation where I attend, blacks, whites, and Hispanics all attend together. There is a deep love and fellowship between us all. Everyone is welcome.

    When I visited my son, who lives in the D.C. area, his congregation included black, white, Hispanic, Vietnamese, Korean, Chinese, African (not African American, but members from Ghana and Nigeria), Haiti, and even Tibet! Imagine that, Tibetan Mormons!

    God is no respecter of persons. It’s funny how those who call us racists have churches that segregate themselves!

  82. Raymond Takashi Swenson Says:

    To Vanka: you should calm down. Please note that Jesus Christ will come again in his full glory as God and rule the earth. God will take care if it, as he revealed to John the apostle in the book of Revelation. The Mormons are not going to do anything. God can do his own work and fulfill his own prophecies.

    Unlike many of our Evangelical neighbirs, Mormons do NOT believe that the righteous will be “raptured” into heaven and escape the tribulations of the period before Christ takes his rightful place as ruler of the earth. Rather, we believe that all humanity will undergo those trials together. We seek to live prudently and keep stores of emergency supplies. The trials foreseen by Jesus in Matthew twenty four, and by John, are something we will seek to mitigate for ourselves and our neighbors. We are taught by our prophets to share what we have with all in need, especially in the face of disasters like the earthquake and tsunami and nuclear meltdown in Japan. The Mormons in Japan, Chile and Haiti have done as Mormons always do, giving unselfish service and material aid to those hit by disasters. After both World War One and WWII, the Mormons sent wheat and other food to war torn Europe. The people in Louisiana and Mississippi know that having a lot of Mormons around is better than FEMA when you are hit by a hurricane.

    If Rev. Dozier’s church was destroyed by hurricane winds, the Mormons would be there to help clear the debris and help rebuild, as they have done for other black church congregations in Utah and elsewhere.

  83. Raymond Takashi Swenson Says:

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not use ANY Church fund to buy ads in support if Proposition 8 in California. It was individual Mormons who donated to the fund, and that contribution was no more than about half of what was collected. Firthermore, MORE money was collected to buy ANTI Prop 8 ads. Everyone involved was exercising their rights of free speech, press and assemblage under the First Amendment. In the end, the voters chise, and a majority of black voters and a majority if Hispanic voters put Prop 8 over the top. As you noted, Mormons are only a couple percent of the population in California and their vote did not make the difference.

    Now if course, it seems clear that Rev. Dozier would have suppirted Prop 8 if he lived in California, as would Rick Santorum. Would Rev. Dozier be shocked to realize that he might agree with Mormons on something? Might he be prompted to actually go online and READ the Book of Mormon and find out he has been misquoting it?

  84. Greg Whitener Says:

    To John Pack Lambert

    You are a very effective user of bait and switch tactics, and I’m sure you’re a very persuasive debater against people who don’t know any better. But, alas-facts are facts. Evangelism and conversion do not negate the white supremacist nature of the Book of Mormon or Brigham Young. Every religion needs new converts or it will die off over time the Mormons are no exception. Southerners in the antebellum south baptized preached to slaves-that didn’t stop them from being white supremacist or evil.

    The fact that your church recruits among the “cursed lamanites” is no proof of the inherent fairness of the doctrine. The fact is that yor church fathers including Brigham Young hated and despised other races, including Africans and your church decieves people by not telling them this their missionary journeys and they become fools to your churches’ deception when they convert. Why else would anybody voluntarily honor men and women who would consider them animalistic brutes simply by their appearance as Brigham Young did?

  85. grant Says:

    In a recent commercial Nelson Mandela says that bigotry against “races and religions is learned” and is reprehensible.” How interesting that we can have Catholic and Black Presidents, but some bigoted people do not want a Mormon president for whatever reason. SUCH ATTITUDES RELECT BLATANT DISCRIMINATION AND BIGOTRY IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY..

  86. LindaSDF Says:

    Vanka, I have read your vituperative posts, and want to ask you, what do you think is the solution? I mean, did Hitler have the right idea, but the wrong people? Or perhaps we should just put them all in concentration camps like the US did with the Japanese-Americans?
    Were you hoping that we Mormons would get the message that we are wrong, or just trying to put real fear and hatred into the hearts of people who know nothing about Mormons?
    I mean, I don’t even know where to start on this! It definately does NOT describe the church I have belonged to for the last 30+ years.

    My church encourages me and leads me to the highest standards that God wants for His children. Our leaders are us. We lead each other. We watch out for each other, we encourage and uplift each other. We want for each other the same thing we want for ourselves; to be as Christ-like as we can be. This is more than just having faith. It’s doing what Christ commands, it’s doing what James said is pure religion: helping the Fatherless and the widow, and keeping ourselves unspotted before the world.

    It’s been my experience that those who attack are afraid. I can’t help wondering what it is about us that you fear.

  87. LindaSDF Says:

    @ greg Whitener, like with Vanka, I don’t see what you see. And I don’t believe that the non-white members of our church see it that way, either.

  88. LDSareChristian Says:

    Christine posted: Why do they believe that marrying a black was a sin that couldn’t be forgiven.
    ==============
    At that time, Blacks couldn’t hold the priesthood, so marrying someone black meant all their children couldn’t hold the Priesthood either.
    Now that Blacks can hold the Priesthood, this is no longer an issue.

  89. Joe Says:

    Just want to say that several of these comments are by professional anti-Mormons….they hate and misconstrue (or make up things…there never was a doctrine that marrying blacks couldn’t be forgiven) and they do this full time on the internet. So many people today try to justify their hatred against Mormons by accusing Mormons of all manner of evil. This same method was used against other religious minorities in the last few centuries. It is sad that in this century people still hold hate so highly. I think some (Vanka etc), instead of spending time justifying hating Mormons, should attend some diversity training classes.

    Here is a quote from Julian Reynolds on Black lds, I hope all who hate us for our religion will read the full article:“In response to their shockingly polemical treatment of a serious and critical issue facing all religions…we will discuss the double standard that anti-Mormons apply to the LDS Church while nervously whistling past the graveyard of their own troubled (bigotry)…it is time to ask a question of those who continue to pit racial groups against one another in the name of Christ. Are they guilty of engaging in a subtle but virulent racism by reducing the black race to nothing more than a convenient brickbat in their polemical assaults on other Christians?” ( Juliann discusses some of the bigotry in America and so on and contrasts that to what Mormons REALLY believe, and taught previously and now, he quotes conferences and so on.)

    I’m guessing all have heard all the anti-Mormon propaganda, here are some things you might not know:

    Anti-Mormons in the 19th Century attacked Mormons for our pro-Black stances.
    These attacks eventually turned to rape, massacre, tar and feathers etc. The very first LDS paper called for an end to slavery. And one of the fist anti-Mormon publications said:
    “The believers in this miserable production, are known by the name of “Mormonites,” and their book is commonly called “The book of Mormon.”…” Among them is a man of color, a chief man…”

    Joseph Smith had given priesthood to Blacks and we were hated back then because he taught that Blacks were equal to whites. The converts at Kirtland Ohio (where the first LDS temple was built) were led by a Black man who reportedly had a prophetic gift.

    Mormons were driven from their homes and from State to State. They finally left the United States.

    When Utah became a State the Federal gov. required that Utah allow slavery, even though Mormons were opposed to it. Utah had also given Blacks (and women) the right to vote and the feds took that right. At that time (when becoming a State), for unknown reasons, Brigham Young announced a policy preventing Blacks from holding Priesthood. The Church later issued a statement explaining that they didn’t know why Brigham had restricted priesthood, they really wanted to give it to all (the Book of Mormon teaches that all are equal before God, and the D&C teaches that slavery is wrong, (Brigham did have some racist ideas (curse of Cain) but, as Julian explains, almost all Americans had this idea in his day, even those opposed to slavery, this was among many of the ideas that he probably gleaned from American culture at the time, and he was much more progressive than other Americans of his era, claiming God would punish the white man for his mistreatment of Blacks etc)—but, the First Presidency explained that they didn’t feel at liberty to change the rule until they understood or had direction.

    Interestingly, no one is discussing Catholic involvement in racism, slavery, the first slave ship arriving in America (“the good ship Jesus”) etc. I’m not saying we need to accuse Catholics etc of racism today because of racism yesterday, but I’m wondering why we are doing it to Mormons. Especially when Mormons were much less racist than others.

  90. Joe Says:

    Here are more quotes from Mormon views of my dark skinned LDS family members (Black, or at least as Black as Obama, whose Church is actually more white than the LDS Church).
    I’m pretty sure they are all from before 1978, and some very early:
    “We repudiate efforts to deny to any person his or her inalienable dignity and rights on the abhorrent and tragic theory of the superiority of one race or color over another.” (Church Global Media Guide)

    “We do wish that there would be no racial prejudice…. Racial prejudice is of the devil…. There is no place for it in the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

    “We feel nothing but love…the rich talents, endowments, and the earnest strivings of our Negro brothers and sisters. We are eager to share with men of all races the blessings of the Gospel.”

    “We join…throughout the world…pray that all of the blessings…may…become available…Meanwhile we must strive harder to… love one another. In developing that love and concern for one another, while awaiting revelations yet to come…”
    The First Presidency
    For unknown reasons “… not entitled to the priesthood at the PRESENT time. …”The day will come…possess all the blessings which we now have.”
    First Presidency 1949

    No church or other organization is more insistent than THE CHURCH of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, that the Negroes should receive all the rights and privileges that can possibly be given to any other in the true sense of equality as declared in the Declaration of Independence. They should be equal…in their defense of these privileges the members of the Church will stand.”

    For Mormons, if there is such a thing as a “chosen” people in America, it would be the dark skinned Native Americans of the Book of Mormon (which the pastor misquotes). The Book of Mormon teaches that God gave America to Native Americans as their “land of inheritance” and white “gentiles” should seek to be adopted into the family of dark skinned Lehi if they want to live here with the true Americans.

    Yes, some Church leaders had some racist ideas, starting with Peter, who thought that all other races (black, white, etc) were “unclean,” but these ideas were mild compared to others racism, and they are typically taken out of context by anti-Mormons (check FAIR lds Black lds etc), and 100 years before MLK explained that “…the folk lynching them are often big deacons in the Baptist churches and stewards in the Methodist churches feeling that by killing and murdering and lynching another human being…” about 100 years before others were doing these things, Mormons were teaching that if Blacks were set free they would take the shine off the highest white dignitaries, that the white man would be punished for mistreating Blacks etc.

    Mormons were letting Blacks vote, and were viciously attacked, raped, etc partially resulting for pro-Black and anti-slavery stances.
    Early persecutions against Mormons were due, in part, to the fact that LDS leaders and scriptures officially taught that Blacks were equal to and even superior to whites, were blessed with wisdom, and that all are equal “Black and White.” Current research shows that Mormons are less racist than others. My LDS congregation has many racially mixed families.

    You must all remember that the accusations you hear against Mormons are almost always false (we are accused of “all manner of evil falsely” as Jesus said His followers would be, “for so persecuted they the prophets before you.” And those trying to paint us as evil do so unfairly, and are often seeking political gain or money, some are simply hateful.

    Please also read my quote above by Julian, he writes much better than I ever will, and says of anti-Mormons “Are they guilty of engaging in a subtle but virulent racism by reducing the black race to nothing more than a convenient brickbat in their polemical assaults on other Christians?”

  91. Greg Whitener Says:

    Lindasdf I’m sure your non-white members don’t feel as I do since your white members, (if this discussion is representative) are probably Not mentioning the true racial animus and skin color libel contained in your book of mormon. It’s like ex-slaves reporting that they were preached steady diets of Pauls’ “slaves obey your masters” but none of the story of exodus.

    You may all be good people, but your scripture-the book of mormon is a white supremacist tract and nothing you can say can change what has been written.

    BTW, When you name your biggest University after a white supremacist who called for the death penalty for race mixing, it says whose values your church holds dear.

    And the book will ALWAYS be aid and comfort to the racists among you and your nonwhite members will always be dupes into second class membership. White and delightsome, huh.

  92. LindaSDF Says:

    @greg whitener According to my non-white husband, you are wrong. Your whole post is wrong. The Book of Mormon is not white supremecist, Brigham Young was not a white supremicist, etc.
    Again I ask, why would ANYONE who is not white want to join a white supremicist organization? Why would they accept a white supremecist propaganda as the Word of God?
    It sounds to me like YOU think they are stupid. WE don’t, and THEY don’t. YOU do. My husband was a little offended by your post, actually. He really doesn’t like being called stupid.

  93. LindaSDF Says:

    As for the death penalty for race mixing.

    I told you before, back then, white men would often use black slaves as sex toys. And they had no say in the matter. They had no rights.

    Brigham Young was telling his PRIESTHOOD HOLDERS that if they engaged in such immorality, THEY were WORTHY of death on the spot. Which is as it should be.

    Or don’t you agree?

  94. Joe Says:

    In anti-Mormon school they don’t really tell anyone that most Mormons are probably dark skinned. They also forget to mention that Book of Mormon people would not have understood our modern racism issues. If there WERE any racism in the Book it would be a dark skinned superiority over whites. White Europeans are called “gentiles” in the Book of Mormon and dark skinned Book of Mormon scribes imply that these white Europeans would need extra repentance, partially due to their lack of charity, and perhaps because of their mistreatment of Native Americans. The Lehites, writing the Book of Mormon, were all dark skinned, and viewed themselves as one race, and “brethren”. They couldn’t tell the difference between a Lamanite or Nephite except by language and perhaps dress. If anyone is a chosen people in the Book of Mormon it is the dark skinned Native Americans who are descended from Lehi, Joseph, and his Egyptian wife.
    Book of Mormon people did use ancient symbolic language when describing religiosity, (one of many mountains of evidences that it is an ancient book.) For example, the dark skinned Indians who wrote the Rig-Veda (about 1100BC) described themselves in terms similar to those used by Book of Mormon people. (See wiki “White Skins:” Anciently…“Religious conversion was described figuratively as a change in skin color. Similarly, the Rigveda uses krsna tvac “black skin” as a metaphor for irreligiosity.” “Assignment of positive and negative connotations of white and black date to the classical period…”

  95. Greg Whitener Says:

    Linda sdf’

    I never called anyone stupid. In fact in reading the posts on this subject, I can say that if the whole body of the mormon church is reflected in these posts, then mormons are very crafty indeed. If you don’t believe that a book that calls dark skin a curse and white and delightsome appearance a blessing is racist and wrong, then you must believe that dark people ARE CURSED and that white and delightful IS superior. Because THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF WHITE SUPREMACY. There is your answer. If people join an organization without reading it’s scripture first, then they have been persuaded to join it by influences that didn’t bring the subject up or were ok with it. And while you insult me by using the word stupid. I am not the one Stupid enough to join an organization where my fellow members who believe in the scripture can look down on ME as being less than they are because of MY skin color.

    As for your defense of brigham young

    You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind

    Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin – Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.290

    Some Humanitarian huh.

  96. LindaSDF Says:

    @ greg whitener Here is what BY said just before the snippet you quoted.
    “The whole object of the creation of this world is to exalt the intelligences that are placed upon it, that they may live, endure, and increase for ever and ever. We are not here to quarrel and contend about the things of this world, but we are here to subdue and beautify it.

    “Let every man and woman worship their God with all their heart. Let them pay their devotions and sacrifices to him, the Supreme, and the Author of their existence. Do all the good you can to your fellow-creatures. You are flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone. God has created of one blood all the nations and kingdoms of men that dwell upon all the face of the earth: black, white, copper-coloured, or whatever their colour, customs, or religion, they have all sprung from the same origin; the blood of all is from the same element. Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh”

  97. LindaSDF Says:

    Dark skin is NOT the curse, it was a MARK of a curse.

    White and delightsome is not “caucasian” and delightsome. It’s PURE.

    Everyone who joins our church HAS read the Book of Mormon, at least once. No matter what reason people give for joining our church, one thing they MUST have before joining is a firm testimony that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
    Speaking of which, I don’t believe that one should be critiquing a book if one has not read it, and I don’t believe you have read it. If you did, you would know that at various times thru out the 1000 years of the Book of Mormon, that the Lamanites, those supposedly “cursed” with dark skin, were the ones pure and righteous before God.
    Also, Book of Mormon scholars think it is quite probable that there was a lot of inter-marrying between the Nephites and Lamanites, and between them and the other peoples who were quite probably living here.

  98. Greg Whitener Says:

    Linda sdf,

    As much as I admire your tenacity in defending your position, you must eventually accept the truth. There is no reason for you to share in the dishonor of those who came before you in the Church of latter day saints. You have no control over them-their words or deeds. However, continuing to defend the racist elements in your doctrine (or as in your case to ignore them and plow on through) is the definition of an apologist. It is no secret that the phrase white and delightsome has been changed back and forth over the years but that is political correctness and not your scripture.

    3 Nephi 2:15. This passage reads:

    “And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.”

    Are you white? Are you pure? Must be nice to think you come from pure stock because of the accident of your birth gives you the mark of purity.

    I forgive you for calling me stupid, we all say things in the heat of battle-but trying to say that the phrase doesn’t refer to skin color is ludicrous in light of this quote. And by still said what he said despite your attempts to ignore the actual facts by bringing up a nice quote about mankind.
    The quote is this

    the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin – We black folks according to your hero are not only marked by black skin, we are also murderers. You are alone in this posting in defending the indefensible.

    Whiteskin Supremacy is in your Scripture and Doctrine and it is your right to accept it. It is my right to call it racist as long as I have proof and I’ve given it to you. Let’s agree to disagree on the merits of mormonism for people of color. That is subjective. But arguing facts just makes you sound foolish.

  99. LindaSDF Says:

    I still say that white does not mean race.

    And whatever Brigham Young ever said, he was a product of his times. I will not hold a man from the 19th century to 21st century standards. Nor will I apologize for him.

    I don’t believe I ever called you stupid. However, I do believe that it is stupid to believe something is what it clearly is not. Just as you insinuate that it is stupid for all persons of color to join our church and believe that the Book of Mormon is the word of God just like the Bible.

  100. John Colton Says:

    Linda: You are correct that “white” did not necessarily mean race to Joseph Smith. You can see from this link what the word “white” would have meant to him: http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/search/word,white . That’s Webster’s 1828 dictionary, just one year before the Book of Mormon was translated. Notice that definitions 5 and 6 have nothing to do with color or race:

    5. Pure; unblemished.

    6. In a scriptural sense, purified from sin; sanctified.

    It makes perfect sense to me that definition 6 (the *scriptural sense*) would have been what was meant in the Book of Mormon scriptural phrase “white and delightsome”.

  101. Greg Whitener Says:

    Linda sdf and john colton-

    I’m surprised to receive a response from you. There is a point where tenacity in holding on to a position is tatamount to madness.

    John White has meanings other than skin color or RACE, but not when combined with the word skin or appearance. You can appear to be white but you can’t appear to be pure.

    I would be very careful in refuting the painfully obvious ie that assigning characteristics to skin color is racist by definition and white supremacist in this situation. I will leave you to your orwellian defense against the truth. I would say this much since you wouldn’t judge 19th century men 21st century standards. Would you judge them by the standards of Jesus Christ in whose name Young and Smith supposedly came. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” It’s been real.

    OK-For the last time
    WHEN THEY MENTION SKIN COLOR, THEY MEAN RACE BECAUSE THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF IT.

    If you don’t hold 19th century men to 21st century standards, then I guess it was fine with you that “white” men treated “black”human beings as cattle/chattel property because the law, created by other “white” men and women who saw africans as property to be treated as cattle/chattel.

  102. John Colton Says:

    Greg – My comment about the definition of the word “white” was made with respect to the phrase that you kept bringing up, namely “white and delightsome”. That phrase, to my knowledge, was never combined with the word “skin” or “appearance”. So I think my 1828 dictionary reference is entirely accurate. I wasn’t necessarily talking about the verses early in the book of Mormon where it indicates the Lamanites had a darker skin than the Nephites.

    That being said, none of the people in the Book of Mormon were black (as in African), and none of the people in the Book of Mormon were white (as in Caucasian). The Nephites and Lamanites were of Middle Eastern (Israelite) descent, who probably also mixed with other people who already lived in the ancient Americas. So your trying to apply those verses to make the case that today’s Mormons are bigoted against African Americans is just foolish. Plus the Book of Mormon doesn’t even teach that the Lamanites were always more wicked than the Nephites!

    At any rate, it’s clear (from my perspective) that you are bigoted against Mormons. Just as I imagine it’s clear (from your perspective) that Mormons are bigoted against blacks. The difference is that I haven’t seen a single negative comment written here by Mormons about blacks, whereas your comments about Mormons, from what I have seen, are nothing BUT hate-filled bigoted diatribes. So please think about that.

  103. LindaSDF Says:

    John Colton pretty much said it all.

  104. edsel Says:

    I’m a Minister and I am of the opinion that by our love men will know we’ve been with Jesus. Our objective is to esteem every man better than ourselves and seek the brotherhood of men. Matt 28: 19,20

  105. Greg Whitener Says:

    You two keep making straw man arguments that don’t hold water and you believe persistent repitition of non-answers will change reality. You seem to think that racism must happen to me personally and like a young mormon missionary in Albany Georgia told me a few years ago “it’s not yall, its the indians”, as if that makes it less racist.

    As for being a bigot, I am biased torward facts. Your defense against the white supremacy in the book of mormon is a fact. You both (linda and john)never acknowledge a fact you don’t like -preferring to argue some obscurity for the purpose of misdirection you can’t argue with the written and recorded words.

    By the Way, I know the Church has discriminated against blacks, as your church acknowledged. Have Blacks done the same to Mormons? No. There is no equivalency here. It’s called a fact. This kind of babbling defense of the indefensible is why small minded people keep calling you a cult. Own your history. Own your scripture.

  106. LindaSDF Says:

    Let me see if I can make this simple.

    Person A has something.
    Person B says to A “You have X and I want X, too”.
    Person A says “You can’t have X because you are a B and only A’s can have X”.

    That is racism.

    However, we are like this:

    Person A: I have X!

    Person B: So? Who cares? Why would I want your stupid old X?

    Now, why would B want to call A a racist, when B doesn’t even WANT what A has??

    We own OUR history and OUR scriptures. Not your bastardizations of them.

  107. Joe Says:

    So many people want to interpret the Book of Mormon for us. Some early LDS did misinterpret it according to their own 19th Century understanding. BUt Joseph Smith clarified that the “white” meant “pure.” He started changing it, and more clarifications were made later.

    The Book of Mormon itself indicates that Lehites could not tell a difference between one another by skin color.
    They were all ONE DARK SKINNED RACE, they COULD NOT BE RACIST (caps mine, for effect : ))

    If there WERE any racism in the Book it would be a dark skinned superiority over whites. White Europeans are called “gentiles” in the Book of Mormon and dark skinned Book of Mormon scribes imply that these white Europeans would need extra repentance, partially due to their lack of charity, and perhaps because of their mistreatment of Native Americans.

    If anyone is a chosen people in the Book of Mormon it is the dark skinned Native Americans who are descended from Lehi, Joseph, and his Egyptian wife.

    Yes, Book of Mormon people did use ancient symbolic language when describing religiosity, (one of many mountains of evidences that it is an ancient book.) For example, the dark skinned Indians who wrote the Rig-Veda (about 1100BC) described themselves in terms similar to those used by Book of Mormon people. (See wiki “White Skins:” Anciently…“Religious conversion was described figuratively as a change in skin color. Similarly, the Rigveda uses krsna tvac “black skin” as a metaphor for irreligiosity.” “Assignment of positive and negative connotations of white and black date to the classical period…”

  108. Joe Says:

    The pastor and others imply that LDS racial history will be a problem for Mitt Romney?”

    I don’t think it will, if voters can forgive Obama for his Church’s past racist history i’m sure they can forgive Mitt’s.

    Racism is a regrettable part of AMERICAN history. And Obama’s, Newt’s, and Santorum’s Churches were all more racist than Mitt’s in the past. And, Newt, Santorum, and Obama have all been accused of recent racism. And Obama’s Church is more white than Mitt’s….. So I think voters will forgive as they did with Obama. : ) Am I right?

    Will anti-Mormonism be a problem for Mitt? I don’t think so. After the State of the Union I really wanted to vote for Obama, but when I saw the extreme liberal bigotry and double standard (in online comments, in media, and so on- I realized I could not support a party with such hatred. I think others will see this also : )

    My family is racially mixed (Black/white etc.) We feel those trying to paint us as racist do so because they are trying to justify their own anti-Mormon bigotry. These intentionally and dishonestly hurt all of us. I am thankful for those, not of our faith, who have stood against this rising tide of anti-Mormonism. Maybe one day we will all look back at these as heroes, who stood up for goodness and for a religious minority. Thank you again.

  109. charles brown Says:

    I am an American and I am not a Mormon yet I know that the Mormons are great people who believe in helping their fellow man. You said Americans won’t vote for a Mormon to be a president. Well your wrong. I am an American and will vote for this man when the time comes.

  110. charles brown Says:

    I am an American and I am not a Mormon yet I know that the Mormons are great people who believe in helping their fellow man. You said Americans won’t vote for a Mormon to be a president. Well your wrong. I am an American and will vote for this man when the time comes.

  111. Mugabe, Moses Says:

    MY dear friends, who are trying to defend the Cain doctrine, let me assure you that, yes, former leaders and members of the Latter Day Saints Church believed that Negroes, in America, were cursed with a Black Skin because we were less valiant in the pre existence. They also taught that we were Children of the Devil, without souls. All but Joseph Smith taught this damnable doctrine. If anyone is pointing this out, we should not be critical of them for doing so. It is the fault of the Members of the Church.

    I would not vote for Romney, and I am a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I believe that God speaks to Prophets today, just as He did throughout biblical history. Romney is a Latter Day Saint as well, but he does not believe this, but he taught it as a full-time Missionary. From his comments, Romney does not believe in the Law of the Celestial Kingdom. He believes that as President, he will do nothing to raise the standard of the poor, but would rather, increase or fix what is needed to keep them in that position. This is contrary to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom, found in Doctrine and Covenants 78 and 105.

    Also, Romney has served as a Bishop and a Stake President. While he served in those positions, he counseled many members of the Church, who believed that they were receiving divine counsel from one of the Lord’s authorized servants, but if he does not believe that “God has spoken to any man since Moses,” then whose counsel was he giving to those trusting Members’?

    If Romney can’t be true to his own professed beliefs or at least honest with those who relied on him for divine counsel, then, how can we trust him to lead an entire nation?

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is not prejudice, it is some of those who profess to be one of its Members that has the problem.

    I know that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true, and he does nothing unless it is plain unto the children of Men. If there is any confusion about the doctrines of Jesus Christ, it is on the part of those who teach it or change it, not the Lord, and certainly not Joseph Smith.

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